This is a post written in response to “To the Parent of the Unvaccinated Child Who Exposed My Child to Measles.”
To the parent of an immunocompromised child who thinks my child is a threat,
I am so sorry that your child has cancer. I cannot imagine how hard that must be for you. I am sure you are trying to do what you think is best for your child, even if that means requesting that I do something that’s not best for mine. There are no hard feelings here but I have to be honest with you…I too, have a number of emotions surging through my body right now.
Towards my children, I am feeling extra protective. Towards my rights, I am like a mean mama bear who got poked during the middle of a nap. Towards the creators of the hysteria that all of a sudden, for the first time in history, deemed one child more important and makes my child a perceived threat to everyone else’s, I am angry. Towards the parent of an immunocompromised child I am sympathetic, yet frustrated by the fact that you do not respect my choices, that you think my unvaccinated child is the only one who threatens yours, and that you would insinuate that my child should be sacrificed on the altar for your child.
By now, we’ve all been indoctrinated by the measles propaganda surrounding Disneyland. We’ve been mistakenly told that the unvaccinated are to blame, that it’s only occurring in unvaccinated individuals, and that measles disappeared 15 years ago and all of a sudden made a comeback.
In order to justify the removal of our parental rights, we’re told that the unvaccinated put infants and the immunocompromised at risk and we’re shown pictures of children suffering from cancer and other illnesses to drive this point home. We are not however, shown pictures of vaccine-injured children who have died, suffer from cancer, or have debilitating conditions caused by vaccines. No, that would be too objective.
For the sake of this letter, I’m not going to correct the inaccurate assumption that the only reason parents don’t vaccinate is because of vaccine ingredients like thimerosal, nor will I address the highly suspect studies funded by pharmaceutical companies (or entities that have incestuous relationships with pharmaceutical companies) that deem their own vaccines safe, and I dare not sway opinion with an emotional story of my son, who was vaccinated with MMR, almost died, and was subjected to a 240% increased risk of developing autism. No, I won’t show the photo of his sick, emaciated body lying in my arms after I flew across the world to be with him.
So let’s talk about measles for just a minute. It was once widespread in the U.S. I do not argue this fact. I argue that measles had significantly declined prior to the vaccine and has been and will always be a common childhood illness that when contracted at the appropriate age, yields lifetime immunity, protection against more serious diseases (like cancer) as an adult, and allows a mother to pass on the protection needed to keep her baby safe for his/her first year of life or longer.
Measles is “an illness characterized by a generalized rash lasting ≥3 days, a temperature of ≥101°F [≥38.3°C], and cough, coryza, and/or conjunctivitis.” – The CDC
Measles is typically more severe in adults but prior to the vaccine, 90% of people had it by the time they were 15 years-old and the majority of children had it during their early school years. Now, babies and adults are the at-risk populations and lack immunity because vaccines have manipulated it. Yes, every baby and adult (vaccinated or not) can ultimately thank the vaccination program for their measles. Please forward your “thank you” cards to Merck, not me.
Now, it is true, the CDC says that infected people can spread measles four days before a rash appears, but a rash isn’t the first sign of measles. According to the CDC, a person with measles will first get a fever, which “increases in stepwise fashion, often peaking as high as 103°–105°F. This is followed by the onset of cough, coryza (runny nose), or conjunctivitis.”
So is the problem with the child’s vaccination status or is it the fact that a parent had a child with a fever and/or cough and toted her kid to Disney land anyway? I mean…they did pay for a trip to see Elsa and all. This is assuming that an unvaccinated child is actually responsible for the measles outbreak at Disney and not foreign tourists.
Like all infectious diseases, measles is contagious (though it can only survive on surfaces or in air for 2 hours or less), which is why the recently vaccinated should avoid contact with immunocompromised people for six weeks, why parents should be trained to recognize the first signs of an illness, and why you should never blow your nose on someone else’s shirt or cough in someone else’s face.
Measles itself is unpleasant but there are rarely complications unless you consider diarrhea and ear infections (both side effects of the vaccine) “complications.” Sure, your child could get pneumonia, brain encephalitis, or die but these side effects are extremely rare in a developed country and are also side-effects of the vaccine. We haven’t had a confirmed death from measles in over 10 years.
And let’s not forget, complications occur mostly in children under the age of 5 and adults over the age of 20, two groups that are now at risk thanks to…you got it…the vaccine.
We’re told brain encephalitis and death from the MMR vaccine are “rare” but the government doesn’t deem it important enough to properly monitor what happens to our children after they’re vaccinated and there are thousands of children who prove otherwise. What we do know is that death is a possible adverse reaction, was reported in pre-licensure studies, and 140 children have died from the MMR vaccine since 2000 per the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System and that is estimated to be only 1-10% of the actual number. In addition to death and brain encephalitis, other adverse reactions to this vaccine include (but are not limited to):
Panniculitis, atypical measles, fever, syncope, headache, dizziness, irritability, vasculitis, pancreatitis, diarrhea, vomiting, parotitis, nausea, diabetes, thrombocytopenia, purpura, regional lymphadenopathy, leukocytosis, anaphylaxis, arthritis, arthralgia, myalgia, encephalitis, encephalopathy, measles inclusion body encephalitis, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, Guillain-Barré Syndrome, acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, seizures, convulsions, polyneuritis, polyneuropathy, ocular palsies, paresthesia, aseptic meningitis, pneumonia, pneumonitis, sore throat, cough, rhinitis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, erythema multiforme, urticaria, measles-like rash [also known as measles], pruritus, nerve deafness, otitis media, retinitis, optic neuritis (i.e. blindness), papillitis, retrobulbar neuritis, conjunctivitis, epididymitis, orchitis, and death.
Whoa, calm down self.
I assume you love your child as much as I and you are making the best decisions you can for her but please realize you cannot expect my child to live in a bubble. An unvaccinated child who is actually carrying a disease could be a potential risk to your child, this is true but so is…
- A child who was recently vaccinated with varicella, MMR, rotavirus, and influenza, (all live vaccines that can shed and infect yours),
- A child who was vaccinated but didn’t develop immunity,
- A vaccinated child who develops the disease and spreads it to others,
- An adult recently vaccinated with shingles,
- Every single adult (save a few exceptions) whose temporary (if any), artificial immunity they got from their childhood vaccines has long worn off,
- An individual who, vaccinated or not, has any type of illness whatsoever.
Oh, you didn’t know this? If you’re a doctor, you should. It’s all right, this information is in the package inserts and the peer-reviewed data. Yet, you claim I should vaccinate my children because the MMR vaccine doesn’t work for everyone, your wife didn’t pass on the protective immunity to your baby exposure to wild measles would have given her, and you have an immunocompromised child who is at risk by both vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.
Sounds like a problem with the vaccine to me and lack of knowledge parents have regarding proper disease management. Maybe we should emphasize more education and less vaccinations.
But let me tell you why I have a problem with the argument that I have to sacrifice the health of my child for yours:
First, the MMR vaccine has not been proven safe or effective so to ask me to vaccinate my child with something that hasn’t even been properly subjected to pre-licensure, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies using an inert placebo, which is the standard for evidenced based medicine is ludicrous. That’s like asking me to put on a Santa suit and jump off the roof of a house or asking me to give my child a chemotherapy drug that was tested against one of its own ingredients to determine safety.
Second, vaccinations place my children into the “at-risk” categories where measles is much more severe. I’m thinking about my babies’ babies here. Some argue that if we were vaccinated we could protect all of the old people and babies from measles. I say, why pour more of what started the fire on it? I’m personally a fan of herd immunity myself. You do know it doesn’t apply to vaccines right?
Third, it’s misleading to say that the MMR vaccine results in immunity to most who receive it without noting that the immunity given (if any) is temporary (i.e. lasting for a limited period of time). It’s like that really good date you never wanted to end or the pains of childbirth. That’s probably why vaccine-induced herd immunity is a major fail.
Fourth, there are many children who are now immunocompromised because of vaccines. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living under a rock.
Fifth, there are other ways to prevent disease that doesn’t put either of our children at risk. Even the World Health Organization recognizes that using vitamin A can reduce measles deaths by 50%.
Sixth, when our kids are sick and must go to the doctor or be admitted to a hospital, there is a waiting room full of sick people and an infinite number of viruses circulating that could make our children sick. In fact, 1 in 25 people admitted to a hospital will acquire a health-care associated infection. That’s adds up to 721,800 people each year. Although measles didn’t make the list, maybe if we didn’t make it out to be the monster that it isn’t, people wouldn’t feel the need to bring their child in when they have an infectious disease with symptoms that could easily be managed at home.
Seventh, if government and health officials really cared about the immunocompromised, they would advise the parents of recently vaccinated children to avoid public places (including schools, daycares, and Disney) where immunocompromised children could be present. They would also educate parents on recognizing the signs and symptoms of disease, show them how to manage non-emergency symptoms at home, would encourage other methods of disease prevention, and would emphasize quarantine – not for the perfectly healthy, unvaccinated children, but for any sick child.
I’m sorry your vacation came to an end but the unvaccinated parent did not cause your child’s immunocompromised condition and there is no causal connection between an unvaccinated child and your child’s exposure. A causal connection is what’s required, right?
When we take our child to a place like Disneyland, or any other public place for that matter (including a hospital), we assume the risk that we might come into contact with a sick person, someone who hasn’t washed their hands, a kid who has picked their nose, or rides that have not been properly sanitized between each use. It is not fair to require that my child get vaccinated for the benefit of yours or to force my child to live in a bubble so that yours doesn’t have to.
By the way, did you know that studies show that exposing a cancer patient to wild measles could cure them? (See the Lancet – Bluming 1971, Pasquinucci 1971, Zygier 1971, Taqi 1981 and here and here). CNN even covered the story of the Ugandan boy who went into remission after wild measles exposure but the video and article have since been taken down. No surprise there. We’re trying to make a vaccine for that. If I had a child with cancer, you better believe I’d be looking for a kid with measles. But that’s just me.
Although I sympathize with your situation, pray healing for your child, and wish your circumstances on no one, that does not give anyone the grounds to trump my parental rights. My obligation as a parent is to my children, not yours and I will always (always) put them first. Don’t take it personally. I’m just a little tired of my children being used as the scapegoats of emotional arguments and misguided assertions.
You would be too if you were told you should be jailed or sued for exercising your autonomy as a parent and your “anti-vaxxer” children should be subjected to segregation and marked like the jews. I’m scared to repeat history. Aren’t you?
Mama Bear
Lindsay G
November 16, 2018 at 6:49 pmHey Megan, I really love your content. I’d like to say to some of the people claiming you have no empathy to actually read some of your posts before assuming that you’ve had a perfect cake-walk life. After reading your own health conditions and the battles you have with your children no one could say you have had it easy. You are a warrior! Keep it up!
Oh real quick this link in your post is no longer good, looks like the domain is up for sale-http://www.naturalimmunityfundamentals.com/herdimmunity- too bad because I’d love to have read that article.
—but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.— Is. 40-31
Megan Redshaw
November 16, 2018 at 8:36 pmLindsay,
You make some very valid points. I may be biased but I tend to agree. 😉
Thank you for letting me know about the link! I will look to see if there is an archived version and update the link.
P.S – I love that verse.
<3 Megan
Danielle
June 15, 2018 at 10:49 pmThis article completely lacks any empathy and I feel is a very selfish way of thinking. I think what you have said is easy for you to say because you do not know what it’s like nor have you been affected or touched by someone with health issues. I am severely immunodeficient and your way of thinking along with so many others who feel this way do frighten me and rightfully so. Every time winter rolls around and the viruses start spreading, I have to wear a mask, sanitize and wash my hands constantly, and I have to keep distance from everyone even my own child. I can’t even go to my child’s programs at school because I live in a state where it’s ok not to vaccinate your child for personal reasons. It seems like no biggie for you, but for some of us, a simple infection can mean life or death and that’s what happened to me this recent year. I lost an organ and almost my life to a simple virus. And I’ll play the devils advocate here. I used to be an anti-vax feeling person and heavily considered not doing vaccines anymore based on the same groundless evidence that’s been debunked that you base your feelings on…until I saw my own father in a coma, on his death bed within a matter of 3 days of coming down with meningitis because he had never had the vaccine. I won’t tell you what to do, but I’m telling you, when it happens to you or anti-vaccinations touch your life or one of your children’s you will spend so much time wishing you had. I watched another one of my friends 3 year old child who was immune compromised die of a virus as well this year because other parents hadn’t vaccinated and he caught it at day care. Sad to think that the world could go back to the epidemics we used to have because of this way of thinking and that people like you care so little about how it affects others. It’s not hysteria or a conspiracy theory, it’s REAL. It happens in real life! It’s not stuff that’s just made up to scare you, it is very real and very scary when it happens.
Corina
June 7, 2018 at 10:34 pmThe complete lack of empathy in the article is astonishing. While I or anyone else can’t tell you what to do and not vaccinating your children is 100% your choice, please try to empathize with people who are dealing with major life threatening diseases like cancer, or have been transplanted with an organ. I’m personally waiting for a kidney transplant and immunocompromized. I will be even more immunocompromised after transplant, anything as small as a virus, a fungal infection or a bacterial infection that normal people can fight off can kill me. It really is life or death for some of us and to have to go through all the SHIT I have gin though in the last year and the long and anxious wait for a life saving kidney to potentially lose it because of a disease like the measels or even the flu. As much as I would love to live in a bubble, I can’t so I depend on the rest of the population to be vaccinated and healthy.
Diseases like measles, whooping cough and even the flu KILL people there is no question about that, specially children, so I sometimes wonder what parents who make the decision to not vaccinate would feel like if they lost a child due to one of these very much preventable diseases. How do you live with that?
Lauren T.G.
May 19, 2018 at 8:39 pmWhile I respect your freedom to express your views, there are several ethos in this commentary that I, as an immunodeficient person and disability rights scholar, find troubling. They don’t even have to do with the larger scientific debate per se, but more on your use of empathy. Frankly, you have no idea what it is like to live with chronic immunodeficiency. You have brushed this off in the comments as “as for the immunocomprised, I think the article adresses this.” Yes, the recently vaccinated can spread disease. As do common viruses, etc. etc. But that does not erase the fact that unvaccinated people can spread disease, too. Right now, in the Midwest, a Hepatitis A outbreak is ravaging our communities. Yes, the most vulnerable are homeless communities, incarcerated individuals, and drug users. In a 2018 report issued by the Michigan state government, vaccines are cited as the most effective preventative measure. Rhetoric condemning vaccines while also labeling life-threatening epidemics as merely the problems of “foreign countries” (or “foreign immigrants,” as you write) ignores very real and devastating health crises that occur in the US, exacerbated by inequitable access to clean water, shelter, food, and care conducive to sanitation and health. I think that this is also where socioeconomic differences pose a challenge to your argument: it is easy to declare vaccines as unnecessary when you and your children have the economic ability to have a roof over your heads and access to clean water and food. I’m not saying that you are exceptionally economically privileged– I don’t know that– but based on your ability to steadily run a blog and provide for your children, you are clearly not disadvantaged. Consider for a moment being homeless, uninsured, and/or recovering from addiction. You likely don’t have the privilege to secure with certainty the access to vaccination proven to prevent Hep. A. in the first place, let alone deliberate whether or not to vaccinate. Now, I’d also argue that to ignore the realities of the lack of resources for the homeless and ecomically disadvantaged in the US (as well as so many Americans who don’t have access to insurance) by claiming that such lack is a “foreign” problem while deeming vaccines unnecessary is dangerous to national rhetoric and policy. For example, your colleagues in the anti-vaccination movement have held considerable sway with President Donald Trump, as he questions the efficacy of vaccinations and repeats the myth (which is itself stigmatizing and lacking of nuance) that they are linked to autism. If one of the goals of this movement really is to deem all vaccines unnecessary and dangerous, it implicitly is no longer just about your children. Thinking toward the future, such rhetoric could have the ability to change policies and funding, further making vaccines inaccessible to people who want them, who need them as their best possible preventative measure, and thus again not only do not have the privilege to deliberate, but could die without access despite the studies you cite. Immunodeficient people are among this group.
This is where I’d like to come back to choice. While I respect your decision to choose what you see as best for your children and hear your reasons, you made the choice to not vaccinate your kids. My fellow “immunosuppressies” and I didn’t choose to have chronic immunodeficiency. To keep a long story short, I was born this way, babe. The child to whom you refer in this article didn’t choose to get cancer. Just like how you didn’t choose the painful, life-threatening complications that happened to your child from a vaccine. I ask you to please call back to those moments– the fear, the grief, the crushing uncertainty, the anger. It is not hyperbole to state that this is how immunodeficient people feel everyday. As you write, a random stranger’s sneeze could send us to the hospital (I am recovering from a trip to the ER as we speak), unsanitary food prep can kill us, as can bacteria in pools, hot tubs, lakes, and our own showers. Even a hug from a healthy, asymptomatic friend unknowingly carrying the flu can risk our lives. I ask you to please imagine living like this, or find a situation in your own life that you can relate to it. In fact, perhaps your feelings of grief and distrust surrounding vaccines can be a place to start. I mean to put this gently, but among all of the factors that put immunodeficient individuals at risk, unvaccinated peoples are indeed among them. The fact that there are so, so many factors doesn’t rule out the fact that contact with unvaccinated peoples is one of them. The number one cause of the spread of Hepatitis A, for example, is person-to-person contact. I think that this is why the mother to whom you refer wrote with so much passion and pain, focusing mostly on the anti-vaccination movement. Basically, we’re coming from an opposite position as you with shared intense feelings of grief, trauma, and pain. We as immunodeficient people have so little control over our health as it is. For example, in my community, I would be at risk for Hepatitis A. right now had I not gotten the vaccine. Sorry, I see no other way around this. Despite the complications that you cite, vaccines are one concrete, proven way to ensure our care. You say that you are being a “Mama Bear”– well, that speaks to our primal need to protect ourselves, as well, as incredibly sensitive bodies braving a world of colds, viruses, bugs, and immunocompetent people who lack understanding– who carry contempt toward us, or dismiss us outright. (For example, while you expressed some empathy for the child who has cancer and their family, you also quickly stated that measles can “cure” cancer, an abrupt rhetorical move lacking empathy for a grieving family and indeed implying the very sort of judgment that you condemn.) It is a primal pain that we feel, perhaps even a sort of jealousy, that we have battled illness all our lives, while because of your circumstances you can choose with relative security to not vaccinate. Surely, you must know how this contempt feels. So I ask you to hear our pain and not just see it as an attack, to reach into your own “Mama Bear” mode and see how we share deep trauma and drives to survive, despite our differing positions. Most of all, I ask you to hear us and to resist pushing anti-vaccination policies and laws that further restrict access to those who want and indeed need them. You have the choice not to vaccinate. Yes, that is certainly a difficult and complex decision. Again, though, many of us frankly do not have the privilege to deliberate. The risk of further policies and cuts restricting access to vaccines make this not just about your children anymore, but about the rights of all of us to acquire the medical care that works for our conditions, beliefs, and choices. “Vaxxers” and “Anti-vaxxers” alike.
your new fan
February 23, 2018 at 9:17 pmYOU are BRILLIANT!!!
TJ
October 10, 2017 at 11:28 pmFirstly, Autism seems to reside in areas of the brain that develop in utero. Newish science, like 2014, google it and check it out.
The problem isn’t with vaccines, it’s with the way they’re handled by SOME doctors. My mom worked in immunization tracking and found that many doctors were using expired vaccines. Some were storing vaccines in the lunchroom fridge, rather than a medical grade fridge that has backup power and better temp regulation. Many doctors were giving kids the same shot twice, or missing shots, thus the need for better tracking. This is the info you don’t find when doing internet “research”.
It doesn’t really make sense to say that there is much more sickness now, due to vaccines. As medical knowledge grows, we get better at identifying things that were previously little understood. An increase in diagnoses doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence, and an increase in incidence doesn’t necessarily mean a causal relationship with something else that happened to increase just prior.
Here in CA, we have had some pretty bad outbreaks, whooping cough, Hep A, measles. It is not true that people don’t die from these diseases. Whooping cough killed 10 infants in 2010, just in CA. What you have to ask yourself, if you choose not to vaccinate, is : are you really okay with being a vector for a disease that causes the death of someone’s baby, death by something that is preventable?
But for some of these diseases, the ones who die are considered the “lucky ones” (crass, but there it is, and I’m not saying i agree, just that this is how some people see it, who live with the fallout). My doctor came from a third world country and in his village, grew up with people who’d had polio, or whose moms had rubella while pregnant. These are serious diseases. That’s why vaccines were developed for them! They’re not just a fever or just a rash. We in the first world don’t see these diseases, and so many people downplay how bad they are. Talk to the older generations, they remember.
Finally, you say on your blog you’re a Christian, yet in this article, you say that your child comes before the child of the doctor you’re attempting to refute. I am a Christian too, and i here offer you fraternal correction that that sentiment is profoundly unChristian. We are called to protect, preferentially, the most vulnerable. Christianity is not about protecting one’s own, even to the detriment of others, being a mad mama bear, or anything like that. Think about that attitude as opposed to the God we are called to respond to: He DID sacrifice His only Son for our good. Straight up, no way out, and after we’d screwed up royally. So please examine your theology along with your science. God bless you and keep you, and i hope i didn’t come off as harsh, i sincerely don’t mean to; just giving you things to ponder.
anna Ferrell
February 5, 2018 at 9:53 amHmm it sounds like you know how to do your research. i am puzzled as to why you didnt ? You brought up the fact that children die from wooping cough.this is true did you also know that the wooping vaccine has been admitted by the cdc to not really even work ? And if it does it is for such a short short peroid of time also children who recive this vaccine are the ones most likly to be spreading it via shedding .look it up. Not to mention that merca the mmr vaccine maker is being sued right now by scientist in their own company because they lied to the goverment about how well the mmr actually works and have covered up how safe it actually is..You admite that vaccines get misshandled and are not properly dosed so by your own admission are dangerous .however you have failed to mention the very toxic ingreadients that cause damage and harm to children who recive them and even if they dont cause noticable harm or death in a particular child autoimmune disorders are skyrocketing many have been linked to heavy metal poisening .guess what vaccines contain ? Heavy metals not to mention the very dangerous and cancer and autism causing retro viruses. The vaccine industry claims the heavy metals in vaccines are fine because we ingest metals all the time .however they fail to mention that when you are injected with them as oposed to ingesting your body cannot readily clean them out and therefore stores them into variouse parts of your body .not to mention many vaccines contain a cemical that opens the blood brain barrier allowing aluminum and viruses straight into the brain..you claim to be christain however i have serious doubts as i dont know any christain who advocates that a parent should willingly put they’re child in harms way god gave us parent the charge of protecting our children from harm.. but you say we should risk harming our children on the bases of a lie told to you by the vaccine industrie and the cdc .hmm i would call that unchristain
Stacey
May 10, 2018 at 2:25 pmHit the nail on the head with that comment
Stacey
May 10, 2018 at 2:17 pmMy son contracted rubella from a vaccinated boy that I babysat at the time. He was a few months older than my son so my son had not been vaccinated with MMR because he wasn’t old enough to receive that vaccine yet. In our experience with my sons illness of Rubella his symptoms consisted of fever, irritability and rash for 3-4 days and we lived in the US at that time (still do) so it was very much just fever, rash and crankiness. Not sure what Rubella is like in your doctors third world country but for my son, here in America it was exactly what you claim it is not.
AK
June 9, 2018 at 8:52 amDid you not read the part where she said from doctor’s using “expired vaccines”?
Jerry
August 22, 2017 at 4:45 pmWhile I appreciate that you are an educated person, may I ask if you are educated in medicine, infectious disease, microbiology, immunology, or any other SCIENCE that would give you a foot to stand on? Do you have any PEER REVIEWED scientific evidence for your knowledge, or do you prefer blog posts and wikipedia? If you are more knowledgeable than the PHYSICIANS who recommend vaccinations, perhaps you shouldn’t bring your children to the hospital at all. Perhaps you should not be able to administer antibiotics to your children when they have bacterial infections. I mean aren’t they toxic substances developed by the same people who developed vaccinations intended to poison the population? Your children surely would be better off using herbs to cure all of their infections (like in the 1800s). Also, have you ever seen small pox? Hmmm, I wonder why? How many cases of polio, pertussis, measles, tetanus, haemophilus influenzae, meningococcal, and pneumococcal (to name a few) have you seen? Ever watch a child die from any of them? Ever watch them recover with a multitude of lifelong morbidities? You realize the Measles (which you naively believe is not a high morbidity/mortality disease) are not the only threat to children correct? Have you ever traveled abroad and seen how grateful people are to receive vaccinations FOR FREE from the WHO? Surely it is all a huge government ploy to make money… Screw newborns and immunocompromised children right! They deserve to die, live with lifelong morbidities, and be on ventilators and heart/lung bypass machines from vaccine preventable illnesses such as Pertussis, Neisseria Meningitidis, and Streptococcal Pneumoniae, so that your child can be “toxin” free. I mean clearly “big pharma” and insurance companies make more money off of a $2 vaccine than the costs associated with treating these diseases both acutely and chronically, right? Maybe you should get your medical degree, then you will have every right to discuss why not to vaccinate and why your children are more important than the rest of the population
Megan Heimer
August 22, 2017 at 9:02 pmHi Jerry, Thanks for the message. The father of my children is a physician – as are many of my friends. I happen to know that physicians receive VERY LITTLE training on vaccines in medical school. They get 1 lecture consisting of spoon-fed propaganda. I’d be happy to show you the lecture notes. Despite that, highly educated or not (although I certainly am), anyone with the ability to read has the ability to make an informed decision and as a PARENT … we should all be doing that … medical degree or not (i.e. thinking for ourselves and weighing information). As for my sources, feel free to check the hyperlinks in my post. You won’t find Wikipedia quoted at all. You will find the PubMed database and you’ll find that I have an understanding of the politics that shape the underlying corrupt policies surrounding vaccinations … I’m guessing a political science and law degree would give me the authority to have a stance on such things?
A physician doesn’t have the authority over my body, my child’s, and his/her opinion isn’t an excuse for anyone in the general population not to use their brain. If we never questioned we’d still be giving people lobotomies, blood-letting sick people, and refusing to wash our hands before we cut a person open.
P.S – I ran an organization in a third-world country. They don’t want vaccines either. (They’d much prefer clean water and food.)
Bests,
Megan
Jerry
August 23, 2017 at 1:59 pmMegan,
Thank you for the reply.
So your friends who are physicians did not study and learn about microbiology, immunology, and infectious disease? That’s interesting. How did they pass their medical boards? Well they surely have friends then who are actually ID docs, they should discuss with them about cell biology, etc. They are likely to understand this information and help you make an INFORMED DECISION (not from websites) since they went to medical school. Much like I wouldn’t read an article on court cases and not consult a LAWYER before I made any legal decisions. I do not doubt that you have an understanding of the politics of vaccinations, but I do doubt you have a true understanding of illness and immunology. Or understand the economics of vaccinations:
Analyses of over 4 million infants, showed that routine childhood immunization among members of the 2009 US birth cohort alone will prevent: 42,000 early deaths and 20 million cases of disease, with net savings of $13.5 billion in direct costs and $68.8 billion in total societal costs, respectively. The direct and societal benefit-cost ratios for routine childhood vaccination with these 9 vaccines were 3.0 and 10.1 (Zhou et al., 2014).
That’s why we have different degrees and experts in legal, business, and medicine. Moral code though will tell me that killing is wrong. Pretty sure most people have a moral code.
As for your sources, news outlets and studies from the 1930s, 1970s, 1985, and websites do not count towards recent reputable research. This is back in a time they did blood let, so you contradicted your own logic.
Also Pubmed is a search engine and includes hundreds of journals so although a handy database it cannot speak to the journal itself. In order to say a journal is reputable it would need to be PEER reviewed and recent. (Which you say you understand, but don’t cite a single recent one). Surely someone who graduated from law school should understand the difference.
Thank you for doing work in a third world country. I did as well, for 10 years – as a DOCTOR. On the healthcare side my experience was very different with vaccinations, but im sure you got better information as a lawyer than a healthcare professional on this topic.
Yes I agree the health care industry has caused some immunosuppression… its called chemotherapy to kill CANCER, among other diseases.
One thing you gravely fail to do is analyze the overall picture of vaccine preventable illnesses (as Measles is only a small piece).
But to be fair, lets only talk about Measles,
-During 2000-2015, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.3 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 79% from an estimated 651,600 in 2000* to 134,200 in 2015 (WHO, 2017).
-Measles cases among US residents (635) – 77% unvaccinatated (CDC, 2016). (This must be coincidence.)
Measles is absolutely unpleasant:
WHO/CDC, 2017:
-Approximately 134,200 people died from measles in 2015
-1 or 2 out of every 1,000 children who get measles – WILL DIE.
-As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
-1 out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain)
The information you cite is about complications and deaths from vaccination but do you actually look at the incidence of death or serious complication from the diseases themselves.
One example from that same MMR insert you cite:
The risk of serious neurological disorders following live measles virus vaccine administration remains less than the risk of encephalitis and encephalopathy following infection with wild-type measles (1 per 1000 reported cases)
REGARDLESS, making general assumptions and drawing conclusions about vaccinations causing deaths based on spontaneous reports to VAERS – some of which might be anecdotal or second-hand – or case reports in the media, is not a scientifically valid practice.
You say, Reports are “estimated to be only 1-10% of the actual number” do you have a CITATION?
So onto your step by step arguments:
First, the MMR vaccine HAS been proven safe and effective
Please recheck your sources, the information above, the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics both have a plethora of information on this. Try again.
Second, your information on herd immunity is from 1932. Try again.
Third, If you had any idea how the immune system worked you would understand why some people do not develop immunity, and why people need boosters. This is scientific fact and is not disputed by the microbiologist or the healthcare industry.
Also your citation for this one is a website, not a recent science text book or article. Try again.
Fourth, Healthwell.org? Reputable site for sure. Try Again
Fifth, Yes Vitamin A can restore some life-threatening deficiencies much like Vitamin D can prevent Rickets in newborns and penicillin kills Group A Strep. This is based in scientific fact. Also you should read that page from the WHO in its entirety. There is a lot of good information on there.
Sixth, Measles is a monster. Measles remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine (WHO, CDC).
Seventh, They do educate on methods of disease prevention. Hence the name Centers for Disease Control and PREVENTION. Lots of good information on that GOVERNMENTALLY FUNDED site, you should check it out.
Lastly, you don’t think the parents of immuocompromised children know the risks of public places and contracting diseases. This is not the point. If we as a community can prevent some of the more virulent and threatening diseases (not just Measles), don’t we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to? I mean if it was in your child’s best interest to kill another person, would you do it?
Well… I guess I would consult a Lawyer on that…
In summary, the only reputable information you found is actually only picking and choosing the information you want to write or stating scientific facts we already know about immunity. And if you really still think it is a better idea to get the disease than to vaccinate for it (see above statistics for information on Measles only), you really should never take your kids in public. Also if a family member of yours has cancer, and requires chemotherapy, thereby wiping out any EXISTING immunity to any disease, you should tell them and all the other people in the facility being treated, your stance on vaccinations…
Lets leave the medicine to doctors.
Ralph Fucetola JD
August 23, 2017 at 9:30 amOh Jerry, once again the Religion of Science is asserted to make “Anti-Vaxxers” just shut up. Your superstitious belief in the validity of crony corporate science is either an endearing foible or conscious disinformation.
Here is a piece I wrote on the fallacies of Peer Reviewed Science: http://www.opensourcetruth.com/what-peer-reviewed-science-2/
Or, to put it another way, we don’t need to be a phlebotomist to know that injecting toxins is not good science.
When you’ve thought about what is happening to now two generations of children exhibiting chronic diseases not seen in children in the “advanced countries” before, such as certain cancers or other disabilities, you might conclude that it is indeed a religious necessity for parents to refuse all vaccinations if they are to be God-fearing parents!
That is why we are demanding a Five Year Childhood Vaccine Moratorium, to save 250,000 American children from vaccine-injuries, and 15,000 babies from SIDS.
That is the moral imperative of the current horrific results of the unholy partnership between Big Govt and Big Pharma.
http://tinyurl.com/vaccinemoratorium
anna Ferrell
February 5, 2018 at 10:05 amDid you know that the pysicians who recomend the shots are not very knowledgeable about vaccines ?? They just say what they are told to say by vaccine makers and the cdc both are motivated by money. Not science .your assumtion that all physicians recomend vaccines as being safe and effective is incorrect .who do you think is writting all of the studies and articles and blogs against vaccines? Its scientist and docters who decided to look into it themselves and not just blindly do what they where told .your assumption that you must be a scientist or a docter in order to make a educated decision on vaccines is just plain stupid .if you have a brain and can read you are then capable of using and understanding the research put forth by scientists and docters therby able to come to a educated conclusion ..its not rocket sceince here
Adrian
May 30, 2017 at 7:02 pmMy son is 6, and is vaccinated. My brother has two children, one is 3-1/2, and the other is 1-1/2. Neither are vaccinated. We live about 70 miles apart. Every time we go to visit and spend time with them, my son returns home ill.
At first, he is fine. Within 24 hours of the visit, usually the following day, he gets diarrhea and vomits a couple of times. At first, he would miss a couple of days of school because of it. Now, he improves within a day. For example, we just visited on 5/27 for the day; returned home in the evening. On 5/28, he started off his day with diarrhea; before breakfast. He ate breakfast, and vomited within two hours afterward. He just had that look on his face and mentioned that his stomach didn’t feel right.
He had diarrhea and vomited once more after. By 7:00 PM, he was already showing sighs of improvement.The following day, 5/29, he was fine. Stools were normal. I gave him pedialyte, and watched what I fed him. No more vomiting or diarrhea occurred, he wasn’t complaining of not feeling right.
Earlier this year, his pediatrician told us to give him Culturelle before and after the visits, as we had gone up for Christmas, and he was sick just like I described above. She even ordered a stool sample and ran additional tests on his digestive system. That was earlier, this year. All was normal.
Since Christmas we’ve gone over to visit my mom/family twice, and gave him the Culturelle twice; it didn’t work. Or maybe it helps to a certain degree. He’s not ill as long as he used to be. Maybe it curves the duration. I’m just guessing.
But it is a pattern, and I’ve given this more chances than I should’ve. Not once, twice, three… at least seven times… I might’ve even missed a couple.
I can’t keep putting my son through this, but these are his cousins, and the only times we get to see each other. My wife and I argue every time that my mom wants us to come up to visit. It’s more than a coincidence that this happens.
I really need some insight. I read the article and am doing my best to keep my son from avoiding his family. But that is the only solution that I have right now. He is due for another Dr. visit, but I need help with other sources of info, as well. Her first suggestion wasn’t effective as I need it to be.
He is in school; (the classroom size is 28 students) stays at day care with 5 other children on the daily. He never gets ill like he does when he plays with his cousins for the few hours that he does, every other month; each time…
His body definitely reacts to being around them, and his doctor is aware. I want to get to a point where he can play with his cousins without the same results; I just don’t know if that’s possible for the immediate future.
April
June 25, 2017 at 2:25 pmYou may want to look into environmental hazards at the cousins’ home such as mold.
Tiffany
June 25, 2017 at 2:40 pmIt could be environmental.. does your kiddo drink tap water there or anything?
I’d start him on a probiotic and vitamin c to help boost his immune system when you travel.
Joan Malueg
July 3, 2017 at 7:43 pmI understand your frustration, but the unvaccinated children are not the reason for your son’s problems. Instead, how about checking the area around his cousin’s home for possible poisonous plants or water stagnation, or even the food he eats while he’s there (or the water he drinks) or the insects he comes in contact with. The reaction (diarrhea, throwing up) is getting shorter because he’s getting older, but I would concentrate on possible allergic reactions to the grass, or even local crops grown in that area.
Traci
July 21, 2017 at 8:08 amPerhaps your child’s immune system is compromised by vaccines? I would look into changing diet and detoxing.
anna Ferrell
February 5, 2018 at 10:11 amI dont understand what this has to do with being vaccinated or not .my child also has stomach problems any time we travel or eat foods we usually dont .she gets diareha or constipation that quickly resolves itself if your docter did a stool sample and found no bacteria or virus to be causeing the illness then i dont see how you could possibley think it is something he is getting from his cousins and to get it every time sounds ljke it is something he is sensitive too eating or drinking while there
Bethany Carlisto
May 17, 2017 at 9:56 pmThanks Megan! My first child was diagnosed with type one diabetes when she was 1. The doctors are saying vaccines had no doing in this but they are also saying that a virus probably triggered it in her. One virus that hey know triggers type one is measles which my daughter never had but it seems strange that she got type one a few months after the vaccine. I am also no doctor but the information they are giving me contradicts itself. My second child is unvaccinated as I fear the same thing may happen however I’m finding out that life will be difficult for him too as he can not attend some schools or activities because he is “unvaccinated “. All you can do is your best and research as much as possible!! Thanks for your letter.
Bethany
Michael
May 10, 2017 at 8:18 pmMy only child is one month removed from a bone marrow transplant, his best hope for survival against Acute Myeloid Leukemia. He has virtually no immune system.
First, there is one thing you need to understand. If you have a child, vaccinated or not, that child is a threat to anyone who is immuno-compromised by virtue of him/her being a child alone. Children get sick. A lot. Strep throat can kill an immuno-compromised child if their immune system is compromised enough (yes there are different levels of ‘compromised’). Make sure your antagonist is calling out your vaccine choices specifically before you jump to that conclusion.
Secondly, even if they do perceive your child to be a threat specifically because of their un-vaccinated status, that is their right as a parent, and you should be ashamed for questioning it, let alone publicly blog-shaming it, because your feelings were hurt. I certainly respect your decision not to vaccinate, and while I don’t agree with it personally, I would never ask you to vaccinate your child if you didn’t want to.
It’s life and death for these kids. Politics – and feelings – go right out the window if they must.
Joan Malueg
July 3, 2017 at 8:00 pmIf you have a child that’s subject to illness because his or her health is compromised, you do not have the right to use that to tell others what to do. Your child is your responsibility … nobody else’s …, and you are the one who has to protect him or her from catching something from his/her environment. Just because you have been dealt a blow doesn’t mean everybody else has to kowtow to your wishes, other than being compassionate and understanding.
amber
April 25, 2017 at 7:30 pmIf you went to law school then you should really know the preference to use and cite peer reviewed journals vs. finding a website like hearthiswell.org for your references. The article you cited from the American Journal of Epidemiology was entitled “MONTHLY ESTIMATES OF THE CHILD POPULATION “SUSCEPTIBLE’ TO MEASLES, 1900–1931, BALTIMORE, MD*” published in 1933 — nearly 100 years ago.
In another article, from the Journal of Infectious Diseases, I note that you pulled out the line regarding “Complication rates are higher in those 20 years old,” but took liberties in leaving out ” Complication rates are increased by immune deficiency disorders, malnutrition, vitamin A deficiency, intense exposures to measles, AND LACK OF A PREVIOUS MEASLES VACCINATION” (https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S4/823958/The-Clinical-Significance-of-Measles-A-Review)
When my pediatrician, who DID graduate from medical school feels very strongly about vaccinations, and that yes, my immunocompromised child is at higher risk of infection (infections that, if he catches, he is more likely to experience more of those severe symptoms than an unvaccinated child with a healthy immune sytem) due to many more people now choosing not to vaccinate, I value his input more than 100 year old journal articles and blogs on the internet.
You cannot imply that you are citing scientific studies yet only pulling out the bits and pieces of those studies you want to include. Yes, I do realize the “other side” does this too– but… this makes you no different than that other side you are so against.
David
May 7, 2017 at 12:39 amDid your pediatrician also mention they get a huge financial kickback for each full set of vaccines they give (USA)?
Alan Roberts
June 23, 2017 at 1:09 pmFrom whom? Insurance providers give an incentive based on a number of metrics including vaccination. I believe this happens in parts of Canada too.
However since insurance companies make the most money from people who are well this really isn’t a conflict of interest as much as a validation of vaccine safety and effectiveness.
Karen
March 31, 2017 at 2:47 pmI don’t think the majority of indignant pro-vax responders have even bothered to read the entire article. They have probably read the title and responded only to that. It’s very frustrating living in a predominantly pro-vax society. But I do greatly appreciate this article as a reference if/when I need one. Lots of well thought-out arguments for not vaccinating. Hopefully it has and will open at least a few eyes. Thanks for writing it. 😊
Beth
March 25, 2017 at 2:06 amWow! I really can’t believe the ignorance and selfishness of so many parents, especially the one writing this article. What if your child was the one with cancer? How would you feel? It saddens me that some parents would be so negligent as to fall for the hype (cult mentality) of articles like this one and anti vaccination groups. Please do the real research, and be sure to check the author. A stay at home Mom does not qualify as a medical expert and posting articles like this are extremely reckless and irresponsible.
Megan Heimer
March 27, 2017 at 6:42 pmBeth, I would in no way expect somebody else to put their child at risk to “protect” mine. Secondly, I’ve studied negligence – not vaccinating does not meet that standard. Third, if you’d like to do your research, hyperlinks are in coral font. Finally, I am not a medical expert, but I find it highly insulting (as I’m sure any reader would) that you think a stay at home mom is incapable of using her brain.
I went to law school so I can assure you I know how to read and research quite well, as I’m sure other parents do.
P.S – The medical “experts” you’re referring to have almost ZERO training in vaccines. But even if they did, that doesn’t absolve a parent’s responsibility to do their own research.
Bests,
Megan
Dorry
June 28, 2017 at 1:25 pmWow, you are so ignorant. If only have you read MMR vaccine leaflet you would know measles vaccine sheds. And you have the gut to call somebody selfish because they don’t want to put their child at rsik for the sake of others. It is so sad that there are so many morons who think that the only people who can read and analyse facts are doctors.
Lil
March 23, 2017 at 6:29 amI think you hit the nail on the head!. Heard immunity from vaccine is a philosophical joke. I read the first 2 comments and laught …paranoia??? ha…by the things you said you are seem to be paranoid.
shosty
January 15, 2017 at 9:06 amYou probably didn’t hear about the 2011 case of the unvaccinated child who spread measles to other children.
You would rather risk spreading disease to others because of your own unfounded paranoia. The CDC, AAP and WHO do not find a correlation between vaccines and autism… but you obviously know better because you’re a “mom”. Fantastic.
Megan Heimer
January 18, 2017 at 2:46 amShosty,
Vaccinated children spread disease every single day. I’m not concerned about the one unvaccinated child and you shouldn’t be either if your child is vaccinated. As for the immunocompromised … I think this article addressed it quite well.
WHiggins
December 11, 2017 at 3:02 pmIf the human body – one infected – is a host for producing viruses, then how can you possibly say the child who was vaccinated and will succumb to producing millions of copies of the virus to sneeze into the air, is just as much a threat as the non-vaccinated child, who WILL succumb to the virus, and become a walking virus factory even if they don’t show outward symptoms.
There is no grey here, you are in the wrong and have succumbed to new-age philosophy that flies in the face of almost a century of accumulative research. But worse, you are propagating this nonsense because you want to believe made a wise choice and that it is correct – even though it is clearly wrong.
Amanda
April 15, 2017 at 11:26 amThe CDC AAP and WHO of course would not find any correlation between autism and vaccines, they profit from disease! Get a clue, vaccines have been a huge money maker for those who push for their use!
Peeved
January 14, 2017 at 6:33 pmYou are so dead-set on your kids not having autism that you would rather them contract diseases that have either been eradicated completely or are very rare…BECAUSE OF VACCINES. But, I am sure you will never actually realize that vaccines DO. NOT. CAUSE. AUTISM.
Yout righteous indignation is disturbing, sickening, and dangerous. You use and take advantage of the health of others smart enough to get vaccinated and rely on herd immunity to keep YOUR kids safe.
What if the rest of world stopped getting vaccinated, just like you? And, aaall that cozy herd immunity that you not only take for granted, but RELY on to keep you and your kids safe, swiftly went bye-bye? Where would your indignation be then? What if measles became a rampant, painful, and dangerous disease all of again like it was before vaccines, nearly resistant to treatment? Would you be so haughty about your non-vaxing life then? And, are you SO sure measles are just such a fun and warm and cozy lil illness that you’re willing to put your money AND your children’s health where your mouth is and subject them to it? If so, buck up! And, get to contractin’ those silly ol’ walk-in-the-park diseases! Just keep your kids away from ours.
Being vaccinated does not 100% protect you from vaccines. So, again, going back to herd immunity, while you live out your life with the ignorant view of “why should your vaccinated kid care about my non-vaccinated kid?!? Your kid is safe from disease, riiiiight?”, let me help you realize that even vaccinated kids CAN STILL GET THE DISEASES THEY ARE VACCINATED AGAINST. While vaccines are WILDLY helpful and necessary, they are not 120% foolproof. Yes – vaccinated kids can still get the very diseases they are vaccinated against, So, again, keep your kids away from ours.
While you rabidly take advantage of the rest of the population’s herd immunity and reap the benefits of everyone ELSE getting vaccinated, it is ironic you overlook the consequences of if everyone suddenly stopped getting vaccinated. What the hell would you rely on to keep your kids safe from PREVENTABLE diseases, then?
Cali
April 3, 2017 at 5:27 amPreach. It’s no wonder the author didn’t comment. They have no good argument
watkino
April 25, 2017 at 7:50 pmPeeved – thanks for putting into words what most readers are thinking. For not being vaccinated, anti-vaxxers have developed a miraculous resistance to the truth!
eileen
May 22, 2017 at 12:49 pmI think you need to learn what herd immunity is, first of all, and then maybe actually read the article. All of you who have attacked the author here have each suggested in one way or another that she should be more concerned about the other children than she should be about her own…what don’t you people understand about the hypocrisy of asking a mother to love your children more than her own and insisting that SHE is the one who is being selfish? Imagine you are speaking to a mother who lost her child to a vaccine…trust me, she is reading your self centered indignation and hoping you don’t also suffer the guilt of being a lemming who got her child killed in the process of keeping up with the Joneses.
Lily
March 19, 2018 at 3:40 pmDear Peeved,
No, we are not taking advantage of your “heard immunity”. I understand that not everyone has such an opportunity, but I live in America. I’m very blessed to have clean running water, sanitation and a waste management system, fresh air and a healthcare system that supports the sick in cases of emergency. If you live in a place that has such things, you can take advantage of that too! You don’t have to inject toxins into your children and poison them! I’ve also taught my children the importance of hand washing and taking preventative measures to make sure that others don’t get sick if they are sick with something and to staying away from your children when they’re shedding like crazy from their poisonous vaccines. It’s not selfish, it’s common sense.
How does injecting toxic poisons into a child or adult make them healthy? It doesn’t! That’s not what health is. Vaccines cause long term damage in everyone! From gut issues to brain issues and a ton of auto immune diseases. I am vaccine injured. My injury was not immediate but it’s a major health problem for me now that I’m older and my body has accumulated the many toxins that it can’t get rid of. I was born in a third world country and moved to America as a little girl. I was force-vaccinated to get into America. I vaccinated my two oldest children which I now deeply regret – I didn’t know better. Knowing what I know now, I would do anything to take those vaccinations back from my children. You yourself mention in your post that vaccination does not 100% protect or provide immunity to your children. Then why poison them?! It makes them sick and slaves to the medical system for life. Most of these PREVENTABLE diseases that you’re so afraid of are NOT DEADLY in a first world country. They can be treated and a person can recover from them without any poisons being injected into them and as a bonus, they will have lifetime immunity and not a false sense of immunity from a toxic vaccine that may or may not work. Please don’t be terrified of them and don’t spread false terror onto other people. Terror and fear is what the vaccine manufacturers use to market their deadly products. Most of the horror stories talked about on the new are advertisements for drug companies. They don’t report about the thousands and thousands of other diseases that people get sick with. Only the ones that have vaccines so that they can create fear and push their very profitable propaganda. Keeping children free of toxic vaccines is – free. I have found a better way to keep my children healthy, I hope that many, many other parents do too!
Scott
January 13, 2017 at 10:10 amQuestion: Are you immunized?
Melissa
December 7, 2016 at 6:46 pmAMAZING!! Everything I would want to say and point out but just can’t find all the right words to do it! Love everything about your website, I literally just found it today online when I was researching more on vaccines and how bad they are (in my opinion). I have a daycare so everyone here except my own kids are vaccinated, and sadly I have never seen more frequently sick kids in my whole life! Thank you for making this as a reference for me now!
Megan Heimer
December 9, 2016 at 2:16 amSo welcome Melissa! I’m glad you liked it. 😉 <3
Linda
April 9, 2017 at 11:57 pmThis is so good to hear. Thanks for sharing
Randy
November 17, 2016 at 4:50 pmi really enjoyed your article. i am a future dad and an apprentice homeopath, so I know full well about the immuno-suppressive nature of vaccination. This issue is probably the biggest debate my wife and I are having. thanks for putting all kinds of good info in one place
Megan Heimer
November 18, 2016 at 3:07 amYou’re welcome, Randy. Thanks for reading!